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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:19 pm 
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For those interested, here is a Link to a couple of web pages where I've put the photos of Choki Motobu performing Naihanchi and the applications (Oyo) from the kata that he is demonstrating with a partner. Just under half of the applications are where a simultaneous attack and defence are performed using both hands, the rest involves one hand controlling and or pulling the opponent onto an attack with the other hand, hikite style. You can also quite easily pick out the kata oyo that he has embedded in the 12 drills demonstrated in the link that RenegadeMonk posted and that I've re-embedded on the second web-page. Although the old photos of Motobu demonstrating Naihanchi only show the static positions, the transition between postures can be seen from the embedded video of Chosei Motobu performing Naihanchi- where it's quite obvious the kata has been transmitted virtually unchanged. It's somewhat unusual to be able to see exactly what one of the early karate masters was intending to teach with his kata.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:35 am 
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The interesting thing here is that all of the strikes are shown as attacks to the body when generally attacking the head is a better ideato diable an opponent.

Is this 'hidden' and then transmitted as seen but incorrectly or did he mean to always attack the body or even just use these as drills?

Or was Okinawa not as dangerous as made out and bandits were not to be killed but just 'taught a lesson'.

Just thinking out loud, ideas anyone?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:03 pm 
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I remember one writer suggesting that due to poor nutrition and harsh living conditions the bodies of medieval Okinawans were weaker and so more susceptible to body blows.

Another idea is that focus on body blows is a deliberate tactic which acknowledges that the head while most sensitive is also the place most often defended.

It has become common dogma that kata applications teach set methods of ending conflict. I personally think they don't, or at least that not all do. I believe kata teach us to fight and as such include methods simply designed to pass defences and land a blow, not necessarily end the fight there and then.

People will cover their head at all cost and expect blows to target it. Aiming at the body surprises the opponent and causes them to move their guard away from the head, not to mention potentially ending the fight there and then.

It may also simply be a cultural point, perhaps linked to Buddhist beliefs or it may simply have been to avoid the risk of killing unnecessarily.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:11 pm 
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Ace Ventura wrote:
The interesting thing here is that all of the strikes are shown as attacks to the body when generally attacking the head is a better ideato disable an opponent.
Is this 'hidden' and then transmitted as seen but incorrectly or did he mean to always attack the body or even just use these as drills?

I get your point although there is in fact one jodan uraken and in the drill there are a couple of jodan mawashi empi and a throat strike. However what you do see is that the attacks are to relatively vulnerable body areas - to the groin, under the floating rib and the knee where either there is no bony protection or it doesn't take a lot of force to damage the joint,. I remember my sensei saying that you had to be very careful where you struck when going for the head since it was a hard bony box and you were as likely to damage your hand as well as them. I've put another YouTube clip on the second of the two web pages [ Link ] of Chosei Motobu demonstrating the drills which has accompanying illustrations from an older Choki Motobu publication. It’s easier to see where the points of attack are. What is certain is that Choki Motobu was happy to hit to the head if he had to - his famous encounter with the boxer was ended by his fist contacting with the boxer's temple.
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Or was Okinawa not as dangerous as made out and bandits were not to be killed but just 'taught a lesson'.
Not sure I know much about crime and punishment on Okinawa, but suspect there might have been more than a bit of trouble with the authorities for killing someone, even if they were a bandit.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:56 pm 
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Body shots. cracked or broken ribs suck. Getting the wind knocked out of you sucks, and you can not do anything for a few minutes. A hard punch to the liver makes you feel very hollow inside. And if you can produce an effective body shot, then a head shot is that much easier.

I would say my speciality is being able to give a good body shot from inclose, enough so, one punch can end the game. Given that the weather is good that day.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:57 pm 
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We started to do some bunkai on the Motobu drills last night (analysing what moves were involved and how they were used) and found something of a curiosity (to me at least) at the start of Drill 4 in terms of the initial engagement. I've cut some stills from the movie file to illustrate the drill,

Image
but you probably want to view the actual sequence starting at 4min 40. [Link].
Tori and Uke approach each other across the dojo assuming what looks like meotode gamae, then approach again changing stance into meotode gamae with the opposite hands ending up with forearms touching. Does anyone know what this may signify? At this point I initially thought that Tori was attacking Uke's leading arm as a distraction a la Musashi's "Slapping Down Block" as described by Bryce in the Tora Tora chapter of his Kata Follows Function thesis but on closer study it looks more like a form of Sensing hands or Kakie more often found in Goju-ryu.
Tori moves his arm back slightly, uke follows. Tori begins a feint uraken attack which uke resists with an age uke like movement. Tori withdraws his arm and since uke is putting some body weight behind the block he begins to come forward. Tori rotates his forearm as it comes back and opens his hand to grasp uke's elbow. Here is where the meotode actually takes place. Tori begins to rotate clockwise and since he is still grasping uke's elbow, converts uke's forward momentum into rotation of uke, exposing undefended floating ribs for the simultaneous gyaku tsuki.
An interesting drill the concepts of which might be useful in the sort of shove and shove back scenario that sometimes escalates to a fight. It's the initial engagement that I've not seen before and is a bit reminiscent of kenjutsu but I would have thought that was Japanese rather than Okinawan. Any thoughts.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:10 am 
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Makoto wrote:
Body shots. cracked or broken ribs suck. Getting the wind knocked out of you sucks, and you can not do anything for a few minutes. A hard punch to the liver makes you feel very hollow inside. And if you can produce an effective body shot, then a head shot is that much easier.

I would say my speciality is being able to give a good body shot from inclose, enough so, one punch can end the game. Given that the weather is good that day.


Body shots can be good, I agree, I love a shovel hook myself. But generally I'd say head shots were better percentage bets for finishers.

Geoff
I'll take a look at yours later, very limited time at the moment.
Ringside seat still avaliable for the 18th if you are interested!

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:50 am 
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Karate is in part descended from the Satsuma Samurai clan's Jigen Ryu school of Bujutsu. The Japanese were all over Okinawa for a long time so it is no surprise that stylistic elements and rituals made their way into karate practice.

Learning to apply skills from contact is fundamental to karate. Lots of people talk about application from close range but they are still trying to apply a kick boxing mentality of percussive techniques, where in fact at close range, striking and grappling become one and the same and tactile sensitivity with postural awareness are the only real means of reacting to the opponent. The best most karateka seem to get is what seems to me rather nonsensical clinch work, where people try to gain advantage from a rare and extremely short lived position that when it does occur is never the neutral waiting game they train. Sensitivity training completely removes the need for such training in my view.

The first lesson of the drill is to take the simple route, straight through the opponents defence. The second lesson explains why karate teaches forearm blocking over palm partying. Once contact is made with the forearm the hand is still available to take control of the opponent.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:03 am 
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From Itosu's 1908 letter spelling out the Ten Precepts of Karate: #6 "........Enter, counter, release is the rule of torite."

Most of what we think is new, has in fact been around more than 100 years !


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